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(TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

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Coriler
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(TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by Coriler on 24.02.17 0:24




44 Cards

4x Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope
4x Corile
4x Emeral
4x Illusionary Merfolk  

4x Magris, Vizier of Magnetism
4x Aqua Hulcus
2x Energy Stream

4x Tulk, the Oracle
2x Vess, the Oracle

4x Kolon The Oracle  
4x Holy Awe          
4x Aqua surfer      


i have like 6 versions of this deck with different ratios or techs.
splashing pits or swaps is really cool in here as well.
swaping corile out in the opp. turn and giving you a cyberlord is great.

yes merfolk could be put to 3, but i prefer it at 4.

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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by tannyboy2 on 24.02.17 2:58

Wow, this is one of the better starnoid decks out there Smile you have a great curve with many shield triggers and LOTS of draw power. i could see this deck being a huge problem for rush decks with your emerals setting down potential shield triggers and vess removing the weenie creatures. Against control decks, you should fare decently well with your insane draw power to put up with the discard and your kolon and holy awe to have constant board control. It would be my honour to duel you one day and i must say, i love that your deck is fully promo-ed out Smile

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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by striker EX on 24.02.17 3:11

Nice and neat deck. Still slightly scared of fire spells I assume, as the powers are lower. Do u whack shields right off the bat?
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by Coriler on 24.02.17 3:33

@striker EX wrote:Nice and neat deck. Still slightly scared of fire spells I assume, as the powers are lower. Do u whack shields right off the bat?

this deck is heavily geared against control matchups since this is strong against aggro anyway and control is the best decktype (IMO)

the reason why i dont run blockers and run floaters(creatures that replace themselves)  at max copies is exactly because of fire kill. magris and hulcus can die and i dont lose card advantage. they are really great in here. furthermore if i have enough pressure on the board and broke some shields my opp wont clamp me, because they have few shields and are under pressure.

(actually this deck is for a restricted clamp format though. normally id increase the number of streams to 3/4 copies.)

against controls, if i go first i sometimes try to rush with tulk/emeral. ( though an early loco/surfer is GG)
it really depends if you go first or what you have available. if i know i can easily be controlled and dont have streams i dont play my hand into the field and  just start droping hulcus and magris. at turn 3/4

some people play tajimal, or pala olesis to protect agains fire kill but dropping floaters and pressuring with them is the better option. early game you want to preserve your hand and not drop anything that lowers the size.

i have seen players summon pala/tajimal and get an instant loss after being clamped because they neither had streams or floaters...


Last edited by Touch Me on 24.02.17 3:58; edited 1 time in total
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by Coriler on 24.02.17 3:42

i have a build where i went the "full-floater-route" and included lucky balls as well.

has 40 cards and it really needs the early tulk swing . its higher risk but higher reward.

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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by striker EX on 24.02.17 9:51

Precisely my concern. Restricted clamp would greatly reduce its weakness though.
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by LordSommerhill on 26.08.17 10:49

Why in the world doesn't anyone use Pharzi the Oracle instead of Tulk??? I have 4 Pharzi in my Starnoid deck, and it works great. It can trade with some Rush creatures, Melnias etc, and it has a very useful effect upon being destroyed. It can recycle those Energy Streams, Holy Awes etc. Tulk is just awful! Absolutely awful. It loses every possible battle in TCG, and it cant do anything against Rush. It can break shields if they have no blockers, and thats it. And even then, any creature that can attack can revenge kill it. It is another 1 mana evo-bait which is fine, but you already have Vess for that. Please guys, throw away those Tulks and throw in Pharzi. I have tested both, and Pharzi is waaaaay better, and gives you extra hand advantage, has more power and is still a cheap evo bait with 2 mana.
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by Bronze-Arm Sloth on 26.08.17 19:30

I tried Pharzi too.
Tulk is just cheaper which opens better turns with more resources.
Pharzi works but imo this kind of deck heavily relies on getting starnoid out and spamming coriles, not using spells.
I also tech 2 Marolls because of the reuse of emeral and corile
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by LordSommerhill on 01.09.17 12:15

I hear you, but i just really disagree on this. I built a Starnoid deck a while ago, and at first i was using Tulk. But after testing it in my very diverse meta, i was just annoyed time after time about how useless Tulk was. Sure its nice when you sit there with 6 mana, and with a Tulk and a Starnoid in your hand, but other than that Tulk just dies. Not being able to even trade with the weakest creatures like Melnia, Deadly Fighter, Bronze Arm Tribe etc is just really unfortunate in many situations. So since i still have another 1-drop Light Bringer in Vess, i decided to try something else instead of Tulk.

So Pharzi the Oracle was the one that came into mind, as it is still very cheap at 2 mana and can trade with other 1000ers. Sure the point of the deck isn't using spells, but you wont say no to a free Energy Stream or Holy Awe back to your hand. You opponent is gonna want to use removal on your evo-bait, to avoid facing Starnoid, but doing so against Pharzi will pay off for you as well. And just the fact that you can suicide into those Melnias, Deadly Fighters etc just maks Pharzi useful in so many ways. I have testet both Tulk and Pharzi for a while now, and Pharzi has been soooooo much more useful. Even against defensive decks that try to make you deck yourself out with Starnoid. Ram Pharzi into something and get back that Holy Awe, so that you can set up for the one-turn kill. I promise you Pharzi is better than Tulk. It can be useful in so many ways, and even gives you advantage if it dies. You can't say that all that stuff is just irrelevant as opposed to Tulk costing 1 instead of 2 mana. We already have Vess as the 1-drop Light Bringer anyways.
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by Bronze-Arm Sloth on 02.09.17 17:19

Would either call it personal preferences, instead of creating a flamewar here.
I like pharzi in other decks, such as rothus control and such, also in swapnoid, he comes before tulk. But in standard starnoids i prefer tulk as he as the cheaper bait and you want starnoid as early as possible.
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by LordSommerhill on 15.09.17 9:37

I see your point. But even though Emeral is the preferred play on turn 2, you still have turns 3 and 4 to play Pharzi/Kolon before you play Starnoid on turn 5. Tulk works just fine, but my vote still goes to Pharzi over Tulk in every deck. Razz
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by Coriler on 09.11.17 14:32

pharzi IS a great card. you i have builds with pharzi as well. pharzi needs a turn 3 stream to be REALLY good. not always achievable. if you drop pharzi turn 3 going second there will be a hulcus or a blocker most likely killing it if you swing. also pharzi -> snare is subpar vs most decks. early game you dont want to use snare most of the time. its great putting a very big threat (bolly) there but that means 1 more shields to deal with and  your opp surviving more turn. allowing cards of a higher mana curve ( apoc vise,plague soul etc.) your 2 mana pharzi coming out turn 3 without stream is subpar. rather swing a shield early with tulk.

in your build you run 4x pharzi with just 3 streams.. you could say dont swing. well you want to swing early. late game you do have the awe-retrieval which is great. you play pharzi with snare as well. which isnt that great TBH. tulk is a TURN ONE drop that can attack. not just a 1 mana drop. it gets killed by everything, yes but you dont have to swing if your opp has stuff if your opp has an "opening" you do. and he will most likely turn 1-2. you know braid claw and why its super strong turn 1? while tulk is very devastated by loco trigger and gets killed by everything else it doenst have to attackif a threat shows up. snipe a shield and stop, its still a deadly card. people always think its just about the mana cost. momentum created by playing cards early is key as well.

example: exorious vs gatling skyterror. why is exorious used in controls and gatling isnt? gatling has a lot of benefits over exorious. 7000 power instead of 4000+, not killable by blizzard, not easily tradeable in the opp turns ( a lot to trade with 4000), has double breaker even. sometimes exorious is dropped turn 7 and 8 when gatling is clearly better. the reason is because 1 turn earlier drop creates a lot of advantages. you get to do something. you also have turn 7 for other stuff.

pharzi is great. but i run only 2 streams as you can see. why would i run pharzi? id run 4x tulk and 2x pharzi in a 3-4x stream deck. or maxed pharzi in 40 card starnoid with 4x streams. different ratios and techs of those ratios influence each other.

Edited by ELTP on 14.11.-17 to be more appropriate and to add structure


Last edited by Coriler on 12.11.17 16:50; edited 1 time in total

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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by Guest on 11.11.17 2:45

Well, i hardly see that vess of your hitting the field. Honestly a good deck, and i lose it to you, so many times XD
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by ELTP on 12.11.17 13:43

So did you @coriler find Syrion useless in Starnoid deck. I think it just plays so well with Kolon and Merfolk that it's very hard to ignore the card for me.


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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by Bronze-Arm Sloth on 12.11.17 13:52

Syrion is awesome in Ailz Decks with Shield manipulation, letting you use Emeral, Corile, Merfolk and Syrion all together properly. Syrion also came in handy for me in personal in my Starnoid builds i have tried. I agree with ELTP, the card is very hard to ignore. But luckily it’s all about personal preferences
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by Coriler on 12.11.17 14:37

@ELTP wrote:So did you @coriler find Syrion useless in Starnoid deck. I think it just plays so well with Kolon and Merfolk that it's very hard to ignore the card for me.

didnt find it useless at all, its great. i have a deck with  syrion as well. mostly it didnt make the "cut" for me in most starnoid builds i love that its a pre turn 5 merfolk/starnoid bait.

some good points of syrion: an additional pre turn 5 ill merfolk/starnoid bait that unlike emeral doesnt get killed by early fire kill. there are a lot of cards in my cardpool that dont make the cut because of synergy with the playstyle or my ratios. its great turn 3 but i rather use hulcus that turn and stream to keep a decent hand vs discard. with limited clamp  however(dm finland meta) i run -2 streams and added 2+ syrions, hulcus being my preferred play still.

what do you think about pharzi vs tulk? early "free" shield breaks is great.
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by ELTP on 12.11.17 14:45

I see, good points. I usually won't run Hulcus unless I really need to get a body on the field without losing hand. Energy stream is of course more suitable against discarding but Hulcus increases your field. Syrion is great for Starnoid, so would definitely use it instead of Hulcuses.

Pharzi is usually played only with Transmogrify, Reincarnation or Daidalos. It works very well with those but I think it's too situational in a Starnoid deck.


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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by Bronze-Arm Sloth on 12.11.17 18:31

@ELTP wrote:
Pharzi is usually played only with Transmogrify, Reincarnation or Daidalos. It works very well with those but I think it's too situational in a Starnoid deck.

Pharzi does not work as instant recycle for trans ans rein.
As long as the effects aren’t all done, the spells are not in the grave, thus the effect of Pharzi grabs as first part of the effect chain, where the spell is not in grave yet. You can only recycle another copy of the spell respectively.
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by ELTP on 12.11.17 18:51

Actually, you can return the exact same spell with Pharzi's ability since the spells effect is fully resolved first and placed into your graveyard before you can finally use Pharzi's PiG ability. This has also been confirmed by looking into Japanese DM Wiki.

So instant Pharzi spell recycling does work.


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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by Bronze-Arm Sloth on 12.11.17 20:34

Could you please explain why and give the sources.
Because from my knowledge it does not work.

You cast the spell
Sacrifice Pharzi
Use Pharzis effect
Do the spells ability
Put it into grave

Thats how i have done ir so far, because of the unclearly rulings

Actually i did never find any explanation for this.
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by ELTP on 12.11.17 20:38

http://duelmasters.wikia.com/wiki/Resolution

Most of this is not translated, but in short spell is resolved entirely, i.e. every effect is used, before anything else can be used. In other words, Pharzi's trigger ability waits until Transmogrify/Reincarnation is done with its effects and is then triggered after the Spell is put into your graveyard.

1) You cast a spell and put it into your graveyard
2) First you and then your opponent use all abilities that were triggered while resolving the spell


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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by Bronze-Arm Sloth on 12.11.17 20:53

From my translation, there is no exact wording, that the spells is put into grave directly after casting.

Also the combo of Rapid Reincarnation with Kyrstron and Velyrika Dragon from the wiki would be entirely false then

„Cast Rapid Reincarnation and destroy Kyrstron, Lair Delver.
Use Kyrstron’s effect to put Velyrika Dragon from your hand into the battle zone.
Use Velyria’s effect to search for Überdragon Bajula.
Finish resolving the ability of Rapid Reincarnation’s by evolving Velyrika Dragon into Überdragon Bajula.“
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by ELTP on 12.11.17 21:00

That is actually false. We have discussed the matter with the Finnish community a couple of times already. I'll quote me on this now one more time:
"Spell's ability is resolved first so you destroy Kyrstron - it ability triggers and is put on hold - and put Velyrika in the battle zone and Velyrika's ability triggers and is put on hold. Now since 2 effects are on hold, the owner may choose in which order he uses the effects. So in this case, first you would choose to use Velyrika to search your deck for Bajula and then use Kyrstron to put Bajula into the battle zone for no cost."


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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by Bronze-Arm Sloth on 13.11.17 4:47


Well sorry but I’m not in your finish community and thusi did never read about that.
For me they are unclear rulings for sure.... we always did it the other way,because no rule did entirely describe this.
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Re: (TCG) Wise Starnoid, Avatar of Hope

Post by ELTP on 14.11.17 11:19

@Bronze-Arm Sloth wrote:
Well sorry but I’m not in your finish community and thusi did never read about that.
For me they are unclear rulings for sure.... we always did it the other way,because no rule did entirely describe this.
We have discussed this matter on DM Reborn before and you were involved. But it's okay, this ruling is rather confusing especially since Wiki has it wrong. I don't mind explaining and discussing these kind of things every now and then. This helps to identify misplays and also prevents those from happening.

This is getting off-topic here. If you want to discuss on Reincarnation still, please do it here.


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