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"Meta Trolls"

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Mr-ex777
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"Meta Trolls"

Post by Mr-ex777 on 30.06.17 17:34

I think that i need to classify what do i think about the so called "Meta Trolls". As of people know, "Meta Trolls" are people who run meta decks and often defeat opponents in what describes as the most "Trollish" way possible.

This is how i definite the term "Meta Troll":


"People who use the worst type of methods to piss you off using meta decks. They do not let you win whatsoever and won't let you use most of the things you got."


This also concludes me to include the stuff that people hate the most when dueling:

  • For me this includes decks that uses a lot of discard or blocker swarmers. Discards piss me off to the point if i felt like it i could abort the duel. If it's just Jenny or Pakurio i'm okay with it, but when they began to spam huge amounts of Jenny (Suicide dolls), Brain touch, or Discard you until you have nothing left and lock up the board with jammer cards it's pretty much over my limit, and blocker swarms are pretty much stopping the progress of the game and are very difficult for the various decks without creature trigger resistance, such as Apache Urara types of Buster and Jokers. Blocker swarmers are also basically undealable unless you are lucky or if you have counters against them, like Shortshot and Entertainer.
  • In other cases, it also includes decks that have huge amounts of lockdown and spams them early on, such as VAN Beethoven and Miradante Twelve.
  •  Loops. There's no chance of stopping it and they are either impossibly fast or have huge amounts of lethal triggers.
  • Mana Burn control. Thank god it's rarely seen.
  • Multicolored Mana Arms Ramps, usually involving instant death combos like Jolly the johnny Joe and All Delete, as well as discard and shit loads of lethal triggers.
  • Overly fast and resistant rushes such as Redzone, Dormageddon and Beat Jockey.


So what do you think defines a "Meta Troll"? Discuss.
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KazeBlack
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Re: "Meta Trolls"

Post by KazeBlack on 30.06.17 22:03

@Mr-ex777 wrote:I think that i need to classify what do i think about the so called "Meta Trolls". As of people know, "Meta Trolls" are people who run meta decks and often defeat opponents in what describes as the most "Trollish" way possible.

This is how i definite the term "Meta Troll":


"People who use the worst type of methods to piss you off using meta decks. They do not let you win whatsoever and won't let you use most of the things you got."


This also concludes me to include the stuff that people hate the most when dueling:

  • For me this includes decks that uses a lot of discard or blocker swarmers. Discards piss me off to the point if i felt like it i could abort the duel. If it's just Jenny or Pakurio i'm okay with it, but when they began to spam huge amounts of Jenny (Suicide dolls), Brain touch, or Discard you until you have nothing left and lock up the board with jammer cards it's pretty much over my limit, and blocker swarms are pretty much stopping the progress of the game and are very difficult for the various decks without creature trigger resistance, such as Apache Urara types of Buster and Jokers. Blocker swarmers are also basically undealable unless you are lucky or if you have counters against them, like Shortshot and Entertainer.
  • In other cases, it also includes decks that have huge amounts of lockdown and spams them early on, such as VAN Beethoven and Miradante Twelve.
  •  Loops. There's no chance of stopping it and they are either impossibly fast or have huge amounts of lethal triggers.
  • Mana Burn control. Thank god it's rarely seen.
  • Multicolored Mana Arms Ramps, usually involving instant death combos like Jolly the johnny Joe and All Delete, as well as discard and shit loads of lethal triggers.
  • Overly fast and resistant rushes such as Redzone, Dormageddon and Beat Jockey.


So what do you think defines a "Meta Troll"? Discuss.

I define the term 'meta trolling' as decks/playstyles which are very unhealthy for the meta, or even the game as its whole. Binge discarding, constant mana burn, unnecessary stalling (either by blockers or Miraculous Truce alike cards) are things I'd definitely put into this very category.

However, not all stalling especially with Blockers is trolling as some decks require this to function well in the late game as a measure to not get overrun early before they peek, especially with the fast paced meta we currently have.

What I definitely disagree on is Loops, as there are cards in the game which were specifically designed for being played this way or a similar synergistic fashion. The fact that Loops are so problematic to handle is an issue of game design rather than the player's fault not for balancing out cards properly on release, and by that I mean looking at past releases and the potential which comes along with them when combined together. It naturally happens that cards grow stronger over time to keep the selling point, but with the Hall of Fame and the meta shifting to a faster pace the game is cornering itself. They tried to fight that by overpowering other cards, Loop cards are getting triggers to kill the Rush early from a defensive position or they're getting busted with effects and then people obviously start to abuse this like they always do until the banlist comes along. It's a plain flaw of the game, nuff said, but this happen in pretty much every TCG so I'd just call it the nature of card games.

Multicolor in itself also is a victim of fairly bad game design, it always was pretty unbalanced when it came to mechanics affecting civilizations. Obviously the easiest way to fix this is to only include multicolor in some effects, or fully exclude multicolor. However, this would force people to choose one option and therefore actively push decks into certain directions, which would piss off a lot of people because they want to combine. I remember when Infernal Smash was a thing (older players probably know this card as Flame Prison Smash like I do) and it was really infamous for what it did, as it was a broken spell for its cost back in the day and in order to avoid it you were forced to simply play multicolor. People never bitched about Death Smoke since (un)tapping is a game mechanic and you can only do so much to counteract and control it. But FPS had no counter except playing multicolor, so people were forced to run it against their will and that made them upset.

If you look at the whole game with its meta, you have to think of what's healthy for the game and what's not. Rush Masters certainly is not and is the primary reason things are getting out off hand. Strong fatty cards are just popular because some people have the need to show off their money dick. Those cards always existed and will exist in the future as they're important for the game to make money, they're the primary reason why some people buy sets at all, and they look appealing to collectors as well for being pompous and shiny. So while they don't necessarily look healthy for the game, they truly are.
Back to Rush Masters, looking at card value, the average value of Super Rares and Very Rares dropped significantly over the years and that's because the OP Commons took over the world. Since DMR-17 all you needed to spend for was your main rusher of choice and then you had your 10$ of Commons so guess what the sellers did? They upped their prices due to popularity of those cards and that totally killed the rarity balance of the game. And Super Rares were kinda just there, nobody cared about them except a few exceptions like Manalock (for, surprise, its trolling nature). Coming right out off Dragon Saga, one of the most balanced blocks in terms of rarity value they ever made, this was an absolute outrage and is very likely why so many people despise Rush Masters and especially Redzone, because Redzone was the first card which took it to the limit.

The problem simply is that there is barely anything in terms of cheap, active removal rather than Shield Triggers which can deal with fast decks. So people discard, stall or loop to get around it and there will be people who do it excessively because they're paranoid or simply dicks. Those are the real meta trollers from your perspective, I personally think Rush Masters in itself is the biggest meta troll for breaking the game balance the way it did. To put it into your words it 'does not let you win whatsoever and won't let you use most of the things you got'. Because it's too fast and the rest of the game can't deal with it because it wasn't specced this way and needs time to adapt. A lot of people hate this and if they actively start to troll out off frustration, making the lives of those individuals miserable who embrace these kind of decks and support to kill the game.

Of course there are also people who play Redzone and Co. because the like those monsters for being cool designs, and those people get shit on as well. I was merely referencing the tournament players who only care about playability of cards and don't fanboy like we casuals do, so please don't jump me for the point I mentioned above. Very Happy


Just my two cents.
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ELTP
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Re: "Meta Trolls"

Post by ELTP on 04.07.17 21:46

I wouldn't hate on people using meta decks. I would hate on Takara Tomy letting this situation got worse and worse after releasing Invasion evos including Redzone.

Still, I love to choose a more creative way when building decks and very rarely have I build a meta deck in real life. Strong decks that are not really meta are what I'm usually aiming for.

Meta is a complicated and ever-shifting concept and it's pretty difficult to keep it as variable as it used to be when time goes by.


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