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(TCG) Bombazar Aggro

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LordSommerhill
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Re: (TCG) Bombazar Aggro

Post by LordSommerhill on 31.10.17 8:44

@SunnySunday the thing is. Marino has everything that Bombazar hates. Most notably Tajimal, Cranium Clamp and Holy Awe, but also blockers in general, Craze Valkyrie to screw up Bombazars field presence, Locomotiver to discard more cards, and Terror Pit and removal in general. Not saying that Marino beats Bombazar Blue, cause it absolutely doesn't. But of all decks i have tested against Bombazar Blue, Marino Control is the only deck that does well consistently. By well i just mean putting up a fight, and not just getting completely destroyed. When i test my decks against each other, i usually do it in a "First to 10 wins" matches. This way the deck that wins the most on average will pull the win, as well as showing me how consistent the decks are. I have so far had 3 of these matches between Bombazar Blue and Marino Control, and they went like this:
- Bombazar won 10/3
- Bombazar won 10/2
- Bombazar won 10/3
So it turned out as a pretty clear 70% win rate for Bombazar, and 30% for Marino. Winning nearly 30% of the time against Bombazar Blue is pretty insane for a Non-Bombazar deck. Marino Control also has amazing matchup against basically any other deck in TCG, so i might go as far as saying it is one of the best Non-Bombazar decks in TCG. I would say Starnoid, RUB and Marino Control are the three best decks in my experience, if we exclude Bombazar decks.

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Re: (TCG) Bombazar Aggro

Post by SunnySunday on 01.11.17 12:07

Ah ok, I thought the win rate was like 50-50, but 30-70 is still good too. I didn't know Starnoid decks were that powerful, but after looking at your deck-builder page for it I can see how you can come to that opinion. I'll probably try out that deck too lol.
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LordSommerhill
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Re: (TCG) Bombazar Aggro

Post by LordSommerhill on 01.11.17 12:34

@SunnySunday yeah Starnoid decks are very very powerful. They do lose against Bombazar, since their early game is rather weak, making the matchup against Bombazar pretty bad. But against pretty much every other deck, they are amazing, and usually win. Starnoid itself is extremely OP when it comes out, and its cyber lord baits (Corile and Emeral) are also very very good cards. Control decks usually always lose against Starnoid, unless they can make it deck out. Rush and Aggro usually has no chance either. With the build i run, i easely summon 2-3 Starnoids per duel, which makes it extremely solid.
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ELTP
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Re: (TCG) Bombazar Aggro

Post by ELTP on 14.11.17 12:53

Lots of flaming on this thread as you can see based on how many edits I had to make. From now on, please don't insult each other. There were also lots of interesting and constructive discussion on this thread, and that's what we all want see more. Not that mindless flaming. Thank you.

The quote below captures nicely why LordSommerhill posted this topic in the first place:
@LordSommerhill wrote:Bombazar Blue is usually a simple autowin against almost all other decks. But the fun thing about Bombazar Blue in my opinion, is trying to find something that works against it. That was the main reason i wanted to build it, just so i could try to figure out ways to take on the most powerful deck in the game. So far Marino Control, Liquid People based Light/Water and standard Fire/Nature Rush are the only decks that have any sort of chance against it in the long run. Phal Control can also get lucky and pull a win sometimes, but it is quite rare.


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Tom Rogers
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Re: (TCG) Bombazar Aggro

Post by Tom Rogers on 14.11.17 22:09

Towards the later sets, mana denial is strangely good. We were 15 when guys were making this Bombazar variant, so nobody was super keen on abusing Soulswap to that extent.

I've played a few of the OCTGN guys who use great variants. Fortress Shell/Miraculous Plague were the main hitters. BAT/Skysword --> Soulswap engine with hand guards and dark discard. Think it reliably KO's builds like this.

Boring to play against after a certain stage in the game, but it does look like it was better. We just did not notice or try to play like that.

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Re: (TCG) Bombazar Aggro

Post by ELTP on 15.11.17 10:52

sS
@Tom Rogers wrote:I've played a few of the OCTGN guys who use great variants. Fortress Shell/Miraculous Plague were the main hitters. BAT/Skysword --> Soulswap engine with hand guards and dark discard. Think it reliably KO's builds like this.
So you are talking about a some kind of anti-Bombazar BUGY deck? Mana destruction combined with discarding at least sounds strong against Bombazar since, like you said, it's usually put into the battle zone using Soulswap and if it can't be saved in one's hand... well.

On the other hand, Bombazar Blue variants are so strong that they have a decent chance of winning even without Bombazar.


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Tom Rogers
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Re: (TCG) Bombazar Aggro

Post by Tom Rogers on 15.11.17 15:29

@ELTP wrote:sS
@Tom Rogers wrote:I've played a few of the OCTGN guys who use great variants. Fortress Shell/Miraculous Plague were the main hitters. BAT/Skysword --> Soulswap engine with hand guards and dark discard. Think it reliably KO's builds like this.
So you are talking about a some kind of anti-Bombazar BUGY deck? Mana destruction combined with discarding at least sounds strong against Bombazar since, like you said, it's usually put into the battle zone using Soulswap and if it can't be saved in one's hand... well.

On the other hand, Bombazar Blue variants are so strong that they have a decent chance of winning even without Bombazar.

Sort of. A Denial deck -just- runs the opponent out of options (usually by limiting their mana zone). It's not specifically meant to anti Bombazar, but it does beat it up pretty badly.

What would happen when I played, is that it would limit me to 4-5 mana and keep me out of range for the summon. Then things like Plague would come down, putting me into "can't play the game" territory while removing any field presence you can come up with. It's actually a bad matchup for Bombazar, if you could believe it Smile
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LordSommerhill
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Re: (TCG) Bombazar Aggro

Post by LordSommerhill on 15.11.17 16:37

An anti Bombazar deck like that could definitely work. The clue is though, even at 4 mana this deck can potentially summon Bombazar. Adding mana and going up to 5, then summoning Mushroom or Bronze and go up to 6, and then Soulswap Bombazar out. Cause the rulings on Soulswap state that you only need to be on the desired mana amount AFTER the creature swapped from the battle zone enters the mana zone. So even if you limit them to 4, they could technically still screw you over. There is also a chance that they will just win without Bombazar. That does actually happen a lot too, as the deck itself without Bombazar is still good. An aggro deck with Gonta, Hulcus, Stream, Wind Axe, Surfer, Terahorn etc flows really well itself. But i will try out one of those antidecks if you have a decklist for me? But how do these decks do against other kinds of decks? If they only work against Bombazar and high-cost decks, then that is a problem we need to work on as well :/
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Re: (TCG) Bombazar Aggro

Post by nitrox on 15.11.17 18:32

It's actually a general manaburn control deck. The main thing that hits aggros hard is Miraculous Plague, which buys enough time to swap multiple Fortress Shells. Before that the deck relies on discard and mana acceleration. Soulswap with Phal Eaga is the main engine, and swapping with come-into-play effects gives tons of options for defense - Surfer/Corile, Skysword, Thrash Crawler, Belix, Aqua Deformer and so on - Maybe swap Phal himself to get back a spent Plague. Some builds even run Selphie, if not running fire for mass kill.
These decks are mainly vulnerable to T1 rush, and do well against most other types, especially controls because late game is right up their alley.

You can find a list by Coriler in the OCTGN TCG tournament thread, or here:
http://dmoctgn.proboards.com/thread/389/march-2017-tcg-tournament-decks


Last edited by nitrox on 15.11.17 18:35; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Addition)
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LordSommerhill
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Re: (TCG) Bombazar Aggro

Post by LordSommerhill on 17.11.17 17:10

Hmm i have never tried a deck like that before. I will give it a shot and let you know how it turns out! Very Happy

    Current date/time is 19.11.17 21:40